The worship leaders are all carefully coached and choreographed on how to appear more worshipful and fake their collective ecstatic elation over being one with their maker. Youre not trying hard enough! (?) You are so spot on. What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? Mr. Petry was fired and ordered to be excommunicated and shunned for his opposing Driscolls move to consolidate power in the church and not have Biblical accountability before the elders. http://mercysurvivors.com/2014/03/06/mercy-ministries-peru-309k-and-no-cherry/#more-1348. He wants to release you from that burden and bondage, they havent asked for forgiveness? Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. everything that happened at the cross was prophesied about long before Jesus was crucified, one propesy: Psalm 69:20-21 The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. He returned to Maryland in March 1965, when he was assigned to an Assembly of God church in Cresaptown, just south of Cumberland. Youll see they have no standards regarding truth, salt of light. well i cant finish watching the whole thing. They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. How about the demon trials? We saw the Dallas Morning News drop TVC story like it had Ebola germs on it despite knowing that parents were not being warned of a pedophile in their midst. There is an old belief in bapto-evangelico circles that one of the criticisms that could for sure be said against certain other christian religious traditions is that they have priests and we do not, because they let the priests tell them what to do and influence them too much but in our way of doing things that does not happen. With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. Actually are pews still in general use? No ownership and everyone else is to blame. OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. I had never heard someone talk like that. elisabeth seton wrote: But the Pipers, Mohlers, Akins and others saw him as someone really catching the attention of the young guystheir followers. I called Stephens and informed him Lindell had mentioned him in a sermon. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. It is possible for somebody who has a cutting tongue and a big mouth to stop. Hmmm, trust the Spirit, and let them be killed like Ananias and Sapphira? luke was paul's dr and paul was luke's pastor. Obviously, I disagree with Lindell on the upcoming vote. I believe this is the 2 Thessalonians time period so it will become increasingly more difficult to avoid false teachers. @ numo: And of course, the author of Acts is writing more of a historical narrative so we dont get a lot of details. i am going to get a can of alpha-wolf-away and spray out my apartment now. Has he asked them to forgive him? We saw a good deal of quick forgiveness/cheap grace from defenders of TVC. Totally. sometimes i have hurt people because i have gotten caught up in the excitement of a new orginazation or enterprise but i have never been able to stay that way long, my conscience pricks me until i stop and go back and make things right with people i have hurt. It takes at least 6 months before you start seeing things clearly. kudos to the hosts of the aussie tv show that made brian huston look at the absolute facts and rediculousness of his supporting (and paying for) an american mega pastor who is well known in christian circuits I use the term rediculous because I dont want to be mean or judgmental, but I believe that brian was all for helping mark get back in the saddle until it cost him some publicity. Elders thatthat sin are to be rebuke before all, that others also may fear. He cannot or will not go back to school to become a plumber or a dentist or what ever, so he has to figure out how to get back into the Christian preaching / book writing / convention circuit. it isnt anguish if i dont care and i am just a head of some church deciding that someone cant seperate or divorce or annul because i dont have time to look into it right now and i will get back to them with my judgment when i think its appropriate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/, http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts, http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/07/hillsong-pastor-brian-houston-found-fathers-sex-abuse-confession-agonising, http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308, http://www.nancyalcorn.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=21, http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/, http://www.smh.com.au/national/hillsong-conference-shows-interview-with-controversial-us-pastor-mark-driscoll-20150630-gi1y6d.html, http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . Who has wounded you? It so important, huh, that we share that Jesus came to save us from sin, and to give us His life. No body guards. I gave Lindell a chance to respond to that tally. Is this similar to Radical Chic? Its just another singing and acting gig for many of them. I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions.
Church membership requires showing your W-2 and mandatory tithe If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide.
Imagine that. After describing the crucifixion of Jesus, Mark Driscoll asks: Who has attacked you? since we are all clergy??? If I were Satan I would give the Wormwood who came up with that system a big raise (or give away their books so theyd get a fat royalty check ; ). @ LT: I see inviting Driscoll anywhere in the same context as some dumb kid wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. Clear All United States - All Cities They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. also, Some of the current worship songs that I hear dont do too much for me. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. I respectfully dissent, Evangelical NIH director Francis Collins says 'most churches' should be remote until public is vaccinated. Dont you want to be a part of that? Because cheap grace for Christians who are not decent people is all the rage now. Do any of you who oppose Driscoll preaching or running a church again, is there a way he could ever get forgiveness from yall to do that sort of ministry again? I have also heard the thoroughly abusive interpretation of Psalm 105:15 touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm. He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. But. And there were no acrobats, flying drummers, or the need to check out the latest cosmetic procedure on the head worship pastor there. http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. News flash: Jesus is the hero of scripture. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. He has lots of pics holding impoverished babies while his own 5 kids barely saw him. Actually, they have as much as said that there is a good root (their doctrines/practices that accidentally produced some bad fruit. Connection ends, shunning begins and the cycle begins all over again with the next batch of newbies. This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. 15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. I told him that. if your a sports fan theres a point of where something amazing is about to happenfootball baseball in the middle of a game changing moment they jump out of their seat. Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog, i remember that, thanks Van, for the reminder. Maybe six months from now, therell be another terrible story, and well know that the BSd us. What I do really pray for is that the followers start questioning and thinking about what they support and find freedom in their own seeking of Christ instead of following a guru and his interpretations. The ones leaving arent stupid. But with those reading glasses they are losing their hipness and relevance and megas feed off of young marrieds with children. The resistance is to Jesus. one person, after 6 months finally started to say why they didnt attend gateway anymore and it made me wonder why people dont warn others. I take it to mean: Don't feel so bad, there are whole lot of other people hell-bound, too. I find it telling that it contains 41 mentions of "sin," "sinners" and "sinfulness.". What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. . The question is not, Can he be forgiven? but rather Should he be trusted in a position of power over peoples lives? I would guess that many of the people who have been directly harmed by him have forgiven him. As I said, I am not a fan, but I can see the appeal of *his image,* from way back in the late 60s when posters of him 1st started appearing in college dorms. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. paul was all about not having followers or being glorified. I could not exactly put my finger on what was wrong. The pews were uncomfortable. As Gram wrote above these are relationships (if you can call it that) built on trust. CCHD is extremely concerned about the health and well-being of all our community members and particularly those who attended the high-capacity event over the weekend. and that it is ok to debate that point in public. Lindell's sermon is further entwined with politics because he mentions Springfield Mayor Bob Stephens. Im not saying that I don't believe anyone, I really just want to learn the other side of this argument. i hope people will go back and read the whole thing if they havent yet. kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. James River Church is located in the Springfield, MO! i havent seen any video or statement where he has actually apologized for anything except being mean when he should have been nicer in throwing people under the bus, shoulda offered them a pillow maybe so they didnt hit the ground so hard, but totally right in throwing them. James River Kids is the children's ministry of James River Church. Seems odd that Robert, Tom Lane and Jimmy Evans need to be pounding their book sales so hard when they are all getting raptured in the next 3.5 years. Galatians 5:22-23. James River Church Engaged Employer Overview 38 Reviews 63 Jobs 26 Salaries -- Interviews 9 Benefits 47 Photos 12 Diversity Follow + Add a Review Employee Review See All Reviews ( 38) 2.0 Former Employee, more than 3 years Leadership not always what they portray Mar 2, 2017 - Anonymous Employee in Ozark, MO Recommend CEO Approval He was an abusing thug. This is why I said above I dont think Driscoll should even be allowed to go on speaking engagements, sell Christian books, or anything involving Christianity. @ sam: There is no reason why he should be a pastor again. he was chosen because the apostles couldnt be bothered by distributing food to widows) first martyr in church. Ive recently read Wayne Jacobsen Finding Church, Frank Viola Finding Organic Church, Terry Stanley The way Church Was Meant To Be and found what they think the church should be an interesting concept but so far Im not convinced. 15 And all that sat in the council, looking steadfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Are you not voting? @wartwatch Not even the milk toast "We regret if anyone was offended"? Do any of you who oppose Driscoll preaching or running a church again, is there a way he could ever get forgiveness from yall to do that sort of ministry again? signed, Still Looking, first i wasnt refering to anything lindell wrote but only his intro for mark driscoll because i have never read anything he wrote and dont want to. Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. If not, why not? An online petition calling for Mr Driscoll to be removed from Hillsong's conferences had attracted more than 3000 signatures prior toMr Houston's statement. Those who challenged him were openly chastised, disgracefully removed from membership and/or shunned until the organization he created finally said enough is enough and sent him packing (however, with a nice severance package). what is a person supposed to do? But we don't know yet for sure. You cant speak in tongues? I hope you dont write off church altogether. Its what he does. Thats a great question to think about. He had simply accepted the rumors. Even if Houston hadnt properly researched before the demise of MH, surely he must have learned something to have made the decision to downgrade MD from speaker to interviewee. stephen the shepherd is dying. In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. Its all he does. Then you can better understand the depths of this deception. A friend of the family stated the same. i dont know what the answer is except to not get under the pastor leader concept ever. So, where are the reasonable people? It could be that they are as ignorant as I once was, but it makes me distrust their judgment and discernment and dislike them all the same. . Associating with Driscoll might make them feel younger and edgy. I think people on all sides of these conflicts did some pretty horrendous things, as well as some decent things. I think the guys a jerk and theres plenty of evidence out there for it. And the same shtitck but did not call them atmostphere teams but hosts. FTR Hillsong is also Assemblies of God. http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/07/hillsong-pastor-brian-houston-found-fathers-sex-abuse-confession-agonising During this pandemic, we have helped thousands of people with food, financial assistance, counsel, and. Ok, so i am seeing that a lot of people do not like this church. What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. Mega churches are asking people to step back from the reality of how they effect people and just go along with a bunch of rules and covenants and christianeese and let them stay in their positions cause their friends say they are changed. I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. He is young and using Jesus is all he knows. peaceable disposition. Che is somewhat of a romantic figure for a lot of people which is why bringing him up can be uncomfortable. I was reading related posts and noticed hes playing the martyr role as Driscoll did. "Eastview Christian Church pastor, Mike Baker, resigns after son, Caleb Baker, is fired from Central Christian Church for adultery" Why? Like I said, I dont want to get into an argument here. these were murders not trials. He said that his hands were tied. Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. Its all good until (insert question or issue). He explained that wide is the path refers mainly to churches posing as Christian churches (mostly for millions in profit like GW) not the fringe Christian-like churches or belief systems (like LDS). In case this was not a rhetorical question, Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community. i think they ended up closing them or not being involved in them anymore, there is an american branch of them now though. If he is serious about ministry then he needs to stay away from those circumstances which enable him to get into trouble-money, power and the pulpit. Join Us As we Welcome Our Speaker, Apostle Mark Driscoll, The Forgiven. But if I had trusted my gut at the time I would have admitted that staff viewing the members as guests is so far outside Body of Christ thinking it should not require an explanation. "And how many knownot everything you read on the internet is true". yeah, that pastors comment is kinda too scary for me to think about lol. If there is one thing I know it is that those around Acts 29 circles are now in Mark who? I think what became public is enough to realize they are not safe, not mature but toxic and have been all along. No one except lemmings following blindly to where the MoG leads believes them when they say that they only learned about certain facts recently. 13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err. http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, A few items: A preacher is not to be- In Driscolls case he didnt even offer up the grudging apology specifically for the lives he ruined, the corruption, or the abuse of those at Mars Hill. Hillsong church head Brian Houston accused alleged child abuse victim of tempting father, inquiry told, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2783128/Hillsong-church-founder-offered-sex-abuse-victim-10000-meeting-McDonalds-restaurant.html. But what does that mean in the larger picture? Sex abuse inquiry to hear how churches responded to allegations against his father, Frank Houston, and two other men. Youre right. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. that young man is in jail, he didnt receive a huge sentence and is receiving a great outpouring of care and compassion from the community. stephen is going to be filled with the Holy Spirit. (mark doesnt say that stephen was already filled with the Holy Spirit, the bible doesnt mention stephen being filled at that time at all) pure in heart shall see God. Could Driscoll really appeal to people now using his Macho Man shtick? But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. Click below for times and locations: Learn More Stronger Men's Bible Study 6am on Tuesdays | March 7th - April 11th, 2023 | All Campuses "We all have desires that are warped as a result of our fallen nature: pride, selfishness, greed, anger, bitterness, unforgiveness, lust, envy, covetousness, chemical addiction," Lindell said. instead i find now that the Lord uses other christians to confirm things He has shown me, instead of the Lord teaching me things that others say i should believe and me just accepting them as the word of God because the guy has a position or written a book or is promoted by other pastors. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. It is all choreographed and it works! There seems to be a lot of the just finding out new information that everyone already knows about but which now changes everything affliction going around. But in America, (to quote HUG) its all about the Benjamins, baby.
James River Church - Wikipedia Many times it kept me from feeling like I was the only one who could see this stuff or understood how wrong it is. I asked people who were about as famous (if that is what you call it) as him what they thought. Ill talk to you more tomorrow, so dont forget to check back! This can be anything from praying for people over the phone to working in the Online Campus studio.
How Much Does James River Church Pay in 2023? (26 Salaries) I do hope he finds wholeness. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card and teach cheap grace. . Pastor Lindell invited disgraced misogynistic megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll to speak at James River Assembly while Driscoll was in the midst of a sexual harassment and bullying scandal in his home church. Yes he was forgiven, but be spent years away from his former life, maybe to relearn what Christ Jesus was about. You want to go all Colonel Jessup and rant about the truth? There has not been a frank identification of the flaw in the system that produced the horrific results. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? Hope youll give us another try and check out some other articles. . So, I read what he wrote, I listened to his speeches, sermons, etc. its a little hard to swallow that he knew nothing about Driscolls behaviour. ++++++++++++++++++. . They were perceived as mediators between the person and Christ. The following excerpt from that article caught my attention: "I do not want unnecessary distractions during our conference, particularly as this 30 minute interview was only a small part of this five day event," Mr Houston said in a statement. He screamed and swore. was paul asking for forgiveness? Well-meaning people are attempting to put Jesus in structures that do not foster the expression of his life in the saints. I believe that.' @ LT: then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: vengance is where you make someone pay. In many ways, Barnabus is like Pauls pastor for a time. The US pastor, who has courted controversy for what has been dubbed his "more-macho-than-thou" brand of Christianity, resigned from his Seattle megachurch in October after being found " guilty of pride" as well as abusive, controlling and manipulative behaviour. His behaviour has been SO egregious, that I believe that he needs to stay out of anything that offers him a place of leadership or authority. They have a very different take on the fulfillment of prophecy that you may enjoy learning as a contrast with your own beliefs. But it would be encouraging if they did. http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, from reading rob smiths post about the orphanage Agathos in Africa being defunded by Marks Hill church and marks telling missionaries not to work with them it is clear where Matt Chandler got the idea. The Jews in Damascus want to kill him and he is snuck out of town by believers. Others appear to draw some type of inspiration from Driscoll. This one was different. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.. Driscoll has used this vague parallels to himself many times, framing the sermon in the context of his own life with the lives of other noble characters, most notably Jesus. One of the most chilling doctrines out of Calvinism is using Paul for this purpose. Ches rise and fall occurred before I was born so Id sincerely appreciate any insight and correction. vinegar is disinfectant for wiping yourself. rather than come in glory he came in humility. http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html. Only the hero. 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. I just think that there is not much reason to listen to just his side of the story and think that is all there may be to it. I followed up on the link and have been sharing this song with families and friends! And equally astonishing is that other Christian leaders support his abusive style or at least overlook it. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected.